Thanks for listening to Wellness, Community, Magic, a podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda-the-good-witch agenda. In this episode, Ashley Brooke James and Elizabeth Moore join Ramona Reid (enneagram SpSx1W2) to discuss the enneagram! They talk about the adult chair (don't worry, they'll explain what that is), leaning into feelings of discomfort, and how to figure out your enneagram type.
If you've heard us talking about the enneagram and have no idea what that is, this is the episode for you.
Tune in next week for a discussion of racism in sports to kick off Black History Month.
Resources and Links:
Facebook: @nashvillecenterforalternativetherapy
Full Transcript:
[00:00:00] That can be a beautiful gift after the evolution of healing to say "Everything's okay here," you know? It's like, what's the, what's the silver lining after you've kind of sifted through the crap. It's like, what's, what's the gift in this? But we like to skip the step of sifting through some of the crap to heal because that's not comfortable.
[00:00:20] And we weren't taught how to deal with fear. We weren't taught how to deal with shame or sadness. We weren't, we were taught how to anesthetize it, medicated, avoid it, get rid of it nine different ways.
[00:00:35] That was the voice of Ramona Reid, an intuitive enneagram and adult life coach, licensed massage therapist, Reiki master, and founder of Nashville Center for Alternative Therapy.
[00:00:46] She produces a weekly FM radio show on WXNA called Holistic Revolution, interviewing alternative and complimentary healthcare practitioners and patients who have benefited [00:01:00] from alternative health modalities. Today, we are talking about the nine types of enneagram, exploring authenticity and engaging in more self-compassion.
[00:01:10] Hi everyone. We're your hosts. Ashley Brooke James and Elizabeth Moore, co-founders of TRILUNA and this is the Wellness Community Magic podcast; a podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda- the- good- witch agenda. We're here to take on diet culture by making self-care realistic, sustainable, and inclusive.
[00:01:30] So settle in, get cozy and join us on our journey to build community and redefine wellness. Let's get started.
[00:01:40] So Ramona, we like to start all of our podcast episodes by asking if you were a donut, what donut would you be? Or what is your favorite? Yeah, I actually funny enough put some thought to that and I realized like everything, I don't have a simple answer. I [00:02:00] think my inner child would, would love, um, to be the, the chocolate glazed with the rainbow sprinkles cause that's what I used to eat on Sundays in Chicago growing up we'd walk to the Yum Yum donuts and get that.
[00:02:11] Um, but you know, as I've gotten older, I think a good, like gluten-free cinnamon roll is probably best describing me, a little bit, little bit healthier, a little bit. That's awesome. Well, I, I actually, that is a perfect jumping off point for something that I really wanted to talk to you about.
[00:02:29] So you recommended that I listen, is it your radio show that you have the recordings listed where you can go and look? Yeah, Holistic Revolution. I have it all archived. Yes. It's an FM radio show here. Yeah. So you recommended that I listen to a couple of them specifically. And one of the things that you and I talked about quite a bit was inner child stuff, because I feel very disconnected or felt very disconnected at some point from my inner child.
[00:02:55] And so you recommended that I listened to the inner child meditation that you have [00:03:00] on that show and I listened to it in the bath with my moss agate crystal, and I was, I'm going to get emotional about this I think. Um, anyway, so I did that meditation in the bath, which is how I'm able to access my highest levels.
[00:03:18] And I did that meditation and you like, kind of go on the elevator and then you go down and then you like speak to them or whatever. And I spoke to my inner child and she wasn't ready to like fully come out but I did speak to my grandmother who has passed away in that meditation and I actually spoke to her and she said some like really impactful things to me that really changed my life and my perspective on things.
[00:03:41] And so I wonder if you would talk about inner child and meditation and what that one specifically is about. Yeah, so that specific meditation was created and produced by my friend and, um, somebody that I have a lot of respect for, Michelle Shellfond, and she is the kind of curator and founder of the adult [00:04:00] chair model.
[00:04:01] And, um, she has created this sort of online platform where you can access a lot of different free meditations. That one's great because it really does as, as you experienced them, do the work of like pulling you out of your head and bringing you to a lot deeper, um, sort of heart center or spiritual place where you can really connect with those, those inner child energies that are always there, sometimes hidden.
[00:04:25] Um, and so I love that and I do, I do direct people to that quite a bit because it's a, it's a really great conversation starter for a relationship with that part of ourself. Um, I'm glad you had a good experience with it. And, um, I'm actually right now in the middle of a training program with her after four years of doing coaching, incorporating Enneagram in adult child work, um, I decided to make it official and she decided to come for the program.
[00:04:51] So I'm in her program of, um, adult child coaching certification. Really delving a lot more into that and it's sort of, you know, my [00:05:00] passion right now is weaving those things together to create, um, kind of my own thing, but to do with healing, adding energy work and all of that. Yeah. That's incredible.
[00:05:10] So you've mentioned the adult chair. Will you explain what that is for our audience that doesn't know. Sure. Um, it basically says that when we're in this present kind of healthy state, that's when we're in our healthy adult. Biologically, chronologically, that's usually, you know, late twenties is when that can start.
[00:05:26] So the, it's difficult to find a healthy adult stance when you're still in your teens or twenties. Um, so it, it basically says that any time you're not present with what's truth and fact, and right here in front of you, you're likely in some sort of story in assumption about the dead past, the imagined future, and trying to fix or cope with your feelings.
[00:05:46] And that's the adolescent chair. And we each do that differently based on our Enneagram type, based on our environment, different things in our lives. So our adolescent is sort of like the flavor of our Enneagram [00:06:00] passion and we'll get into that later. And then the inner child is, is the source of all of the real beautiful organic emotions that sometimes feel great, like joy and happiness, and sometimes feel awful like shame and fear and sadness.
[00:06:15] But they're all good. They're all there. And they're all okay. And that healthy adult can access that inner child and allow those emotions to be there. The adolescent is the one that jumps in and tries to not get those feelings felt because they're, they serve a purpose in kind of helping us along when we're little. The adolescent comes in and tries to fix the trauma that we've experienced and they try to like navigate it.
[00:06:38] But again, biologically they're 11 to about 27. And, um, I remember being those ages and you know, maybe not my wisest self. Yeah. So the work in the adult chair is to first of all, get all of that and understand that there's nothing to be wrong here. You're just, maybe you're in your adolescent chair. Well, there's nothing wrong here.
[00:06:58] Maybe you're just having a [00:07:00] beautiful inner child, emotional reaction and how to keep navigating back toward that healthy adult. So we have to learn about it so that we can understand how we've not been present in order to powerfully be present and then heal.
[00:07:13] And so for our listeners who are not familiar with the Enneagram, or who's been curious, can you kind of explain that to us and, and how you found it and how you became, you know, an expert in this field per say.
[00:07:28] That's such a, that's such a fun label to be, to have tossed at me. It's like anything. I think, you know, learning more and more about the Enneagram creates more and more humility because I realize how, how much I didn't know when I started on this path of becoming an Enneagram coach. It's like, you know, and how much there is yet to learn.
[00:07:50] And I think first of all, through my own process of, of making it important and understanding it for my own life then working with, with other people. [00:08:00] Um, so the Enneagram coming from the Greek ennea meaning nine, gram something written or drawn. It has its roots in antiquity, but um the Enneagram of personality is, um, sort of, uh, an amalgam of philosophy, psychology, spirituality, and a typology of sorts of, of nine different interconnected personality types. So, you know, the understanding, I think the dominant understanding is that we're not a number but we have an efficiency and are dominant in one of these types.
[00:08:35] And if you, you know, you can take tests or you can kind of just like read about the different types to find out which one you're dominant in. It's a process. I don't think any test is going to accurately say, well, there you go. You're a four or whatever. I think that it, it, the tests even, you know, the fairly good ones at Enneagramworldwide.com, which is the narrative tradition, what I'm studying with and then the Enneagraminstitute.com, um, that has the [00:09:00] ready test. Those are the most, I think common. They both are pretty good comprehensive tests. Um, you gotta pay a little bit of money for them, but I think it's worth it.
[00:09:08] As far as tests go, though, I wouldn't, I wouldn't pay more than 10 to 12 bucks for a test. There's some out there that are a lot of money and I don't know that there are any better because the point, again, not being that some piece of paper or computer program is going to tell you something about yourself you don't already know, but I think these tests do. Some of the better ones do allow for that beginning of the conversation of what makes me tick.
[00:09:30] And so, um, in the, in the work that Dr. Jerome Lubbe does, he's the author of the brain-based Enneagram. I really love him. I've talked with him and had him on my show and he describes it as we have these efficiencies and inefficiencies in all of the types. So in other words, like I'm highly efficient in types one, two, and three, and then have an inefficiency in maybe the lower numbers five, sixes, and sevens.
[00:09:55] And so for me, I wasn't modeled or [00:10:00] found the importance of those lower numbers in keeping me safe. And I was sort of born with this dominant type energy. And then my environment sort of influenced my level of health of that dominant type. So it's not that, you know, I'm a number, you're a number. I think that can become really reductive.
[00:10:20] And, and to be honest, a little bit dangerous when we're, when we're in this time right now, especially of seeing such duality in black and white thinking and you're good, you're bad.I think it can be, you know, along those lines of like, Oh, he's just an eight or she's just being a two. I think that that lacks the, the depth or compassion that I like to bring to the practice and my peers like to bring to the practice, which is more of an understanding of that interconnectedness, how we have all of the energies of each of these numbers inside of us.
[00:10:53] We happen to have one we're dominant in and that we have these other pathways that we move to, through if you've seen it, [00:11:00] the diagram of the Enneagram. It's like we have access to one type on each side, which is considered our wing, our dominant wing. We have access to our path of growth and our path of stress and we can like kind of access all these different numbers.
[00:11:14] And then, you know, through learning about which one's your least efficient in, you can go in there and kind of learn about what might be something that you could glean from the, from those types to, to further integrate into yourself. So I don't see it as much as let's figure out our type and learn all about the things that, that, you know, I do wrong and then try to fix some. I see it more of, of, um, a compassion exercise for myself and then for other people, for what shows up when I'm not present. And then what shows up powerfully when I am, like what my gifts are and how to really cultivate those and learn more about them.
[00:11:52] So, in answer to your, to your next question, um, I first kind of stumbled across the Enneagram from a friend, which is [00:12:00] how I think a lot of people do like, Oh, you need to learn about the, about 10 years ago.
[00:12:05] And, um, and somebody else, I asked them about it and they're like, Oh, you're a two, you're totally two. And I'm like, what does this mean? And so I, I read online and, you know, I took the test. There's some free tests out there and um, sure enough, I was really high in two and at the time going through some very two stuff and learned about this and, and, and it really helped me get to know myself better. And like I said, find some, some love for the parts of myself that had been, um, I believed on lovable and, um, balanced out some of my codependency and, and self care and all of that through the lens of this fascinating kind of, like I said, exploration.
[00:12:44] It wasn't just like, Oh, that's it I'm a two. It was like, let's explore this. I learned about all the types. And I was like, wow, this is fascinating. I have a little bit of that and have a little bit of that. And I just read everything and I took online courses and I listened to the podcast. I don't like podcasts generally, except for yours of [00:13:00] course.
[00:13:00] I'm sure it's lovely. I'm not like a, really a podcast person. I'm 46. I didn't grow up with all this. It's new. But I listened to them because I, I cared so deeply about what these like kind of heroes of mine were saying. Helen Palmer, David Daniels, um, Russ Hudson, Chris Heuertz, all these different, amazing authors and teachers.
[00:13:20] And so I just decided this is going to be like my self discovery journey. And that's how, that's how I got into it. It was all, it was completely about me because I wanted to, I wanted to grow and learn. I wanted to be a better mom. I wanted to show up in relationships better and it really helped. And then I started at the center.
[00:13:38] I have a holistic health center in Nashville, and I was like, I need to have the Enneagram be a part of that. As soon as we opened, it's like, I want an Enneagram coach. So I found a therapist that was really well versed in the Enneagram. And she started doing some one-on-ones with people and I'm like, great, I've got that component covered.
[00:13:55] And then, um, you know, another Enneagram coach came in to replace her and, and they were doing [00:14:00] meetings. I would show up with all the meetings and it was just so fascinating to me. And eventually that, that coach was like, you know, I'm not really feeling drawn to do this anymore, but you should. And I was like, Oh no, no, no.
[00:14:10] I've, I mean, I've only just begun. Like I don't even know myself yet. And they were like, no, I think this is something that like, you know, better than I do. And I was like, well, I mean, maybe... let's see. And that's how it happened. It was, it was people saying, wow, you're, you're describing my experience as a type five, you know, in a way that, that makes sense to me really lands.
[00:14:30] How do you know that? And I'm like, well, this is just. It's in these books and in these podcasts and in these classes I've taken and it's, you know, so I would direct them. Then they're like, well, can we talk about this? So that's how my coaching came to be. It was like, how do you do this? And how, how have you evolved?
[00:14:45] And, and then, you know, I started doing panels on my radio show and talking with different types and somewhere along the lines, realize that I'm actually not dominant in type two. I'm dominant in type one with a very, very strong two wing, because what [00:15:00] was really kind of creating my motivation underneath that two-ness was more of a desire to be good and to fix myself and to make sure I was ethical and, and had integrity and, and all of the one stuff.
[00:15:13] So, so my, my projection, my way of being in the world, maybe my relationships looked very two, but really my motivations and understanding myself underneath that is more dominantly one. So that's, you know, my experience and then what I do now. Have zoom sessions with people all over the world. Um, Michelle Shellfond and I kind of worked together.
[00:15:33] I've been on her podcast. She's been on my show to incorporate the Enneagram into the adult chair model of, you know, now, you know, your type, you know, your dominant type, what do you want to do with it? So what if you know it. What does that mean? Like how can, how can this, this is my one coming through. How can you help? How can you serve?
[00:15:51] How can you make this matter for something more valuable than just a personal pursuit? And, um, so we, we talk about [00:16:00] incorporating those, those two things. Like how can you heal your inner child through your understanding of your Enneagram type? How can you work through relationship issues and trauma and fears through, through your understanding of, of where you go in health and in stress.
[00:16:13] And, um, it's, I'm passionate about it. I do energy work with that too, and breath work and meditation with people to help, you know, with these other tools that can help kind of understand and integrate these systems even deeper.
[00:16:26] One of the things that I thought of and that you said is, you know, everybody is Enneagram everything now, especially in the healer world. And one of the things that you said when you were going through your studies, instead of just being like, Oh, he's, you know, he's just being the normal two that he is. And, but you really wanted to get down and, and investigate that. And that really reminded me of when we talk about spiritual bypassing, like love and light.
[00:16:55] Oh, it's just, everything will be okay. Love and light. He's just [00:17:00] being a two. And I think even for myself, I've been guilty of that when I truly don't understand what, you know, what my number truly means to me and how I am developing through that. So I appreciate you for saying that for not only myself, but for the TRILUNA community as we speak on the Enneagram and being careful in that, because we all have fallen guilty of being that.
[00:17:24] Oh, he's just playing into his number or he's just being a two, or she's just being a whatever without truly digging down and, and, and understanding not only ourselves, but if that's even that person's dominant number or, you know, maybe it's something that they're going through at that time, if that makes sense.
[00:17:45] Cause when you said that, like I said, the first thing that thought I thought about was, you know, I've done that. And that's very much the same as telling somebody, Oh, it's going to be okay. Just love and light it out. You know? So again, it's more of [00:18:00] appreciation for you for saying that because it was something that clicked inside of me when you said that.
[00:18:05] Yeah. I'm ,well, what I heard there was two different things. What I heard was, you know, addressing like spiritual bypass, which is so common. Um, even like a lot of people get into this work because they have this deep desire to help and to understand. They get into coaching or they get into therapy.
[00:18:22] It's like they want to help other people. And so, and, and, and first through helping themselves and learning about, you know, how they can heal. So they go to school and they study these things and they try to heal. And then they realize, well, I want to do this for other people. And then they be that's in some cases where their personal growth stops.
[00:18:40] And so I think, unless you have your own coach, your own therapist, your own team, that's going to keep redirecting you back to your own work. That is a pretty human tendency as part of this culture that we want to give to others, especially from that two energy. Let me help, let me help so that I can get something out of this.
[00:18:57] You know, it's, it's, it's unconscious, but that's what [00:19:00] we, we tend to do. And it's also celebrated. It's celebrated to help other people. You're not as important. If you think about our culture, especially women, especially black women, especially any minority, it's like you're not important. You need to figure out what your worth is out there for others.
[00:19:16] And I think that, you know, then we're not putting our attention on our own healing. So that's like spiritual bypass being one thing that I think the Enneagram can kind of really explode things open for themselves. Like, Oh, I didn't even see this. Like it, it highlights something that's that's before that maybe completely blind to people that are super smart about psychology and can help other people, but they didn't, they didn't even know.
[00:19:40] So it's, and then you were talking about like the love and light thing. Um, that's sort of the positive outlook types. Like I don't want to, that can be a beautiful gift after the evolution of healing to say, "and everything's okay here," you know? It's like, what's the, what's the silver lining after you've kind of sifted through the crap.
[00:19:58] It's like, what's, what's the [00:20:00] gift in this. But we like to, we like to skip the step of sifting through some of the crap to heal because that's not comfortable. And we weren't taught how to deal with fear. We weren't taught how to deal with shame or sadness. We weren't, we were taught how to anesthetize it, medicated, avoid it, get rid of it in nine different ways.
[00:20:20] I'm taught to, if I have fear come up or sadness come up, you know what I've taught myself through my Enneagram type is what in the environment can I control? Is it you? Is it me? Is it, is it my situation and how do I make this better? Without first getting like, Oh, I'm sad.
[00:20:38] Let me make that okay. Let's just experience that. And then, you know, eight other different ways that we, that we avoid our own sadness, shame, negativity, anger. That's a big one, conflict. So I think that that's, that's another issue that you brought up and then the third issue, you actually brought up three issues.
[00:20:55] The third thing that you brought up was we like to label things. We like to [00:21:00] understand it. We like to say because our mind centers so value, valued by us culturally, and just personally, when we get information in, we don't take it as new information. Like if we meet a person, we don't meet a person, we see a person and then we say, Oh, they look like Ryan. Or, I don't know, it kind of reminds me of that guy that I used to date or, you know, we, we, we like label them and put them in some sort of thing that makes sense to us so that we can then interact with them. And we do that with races. We do that with genders. We do that with ourselves and we like to label things.
[00:21:34] And now it's numbers. You know, nine, six, two, four. And then we think, okay, that makes sense. This horribly complex thing. Now I've reduced it to a number and I can, I can feel better about the complexity of it because it's just this. And then what's missing out of that is it's all up in the head what's missing is the heart and our actual experience of somebody.
[00:21:55] Yeah. So we, we, we block off, we disconnect in that way. And so the [00:22:00] Enneagram is really great if you want to do that. Can completely block off, disconnect, and understand, I'm using air quotes, somebody's experience by figuring out their type. And that's our way of controlling and trying to make sense of something, but it lessens actual connection.
[00:22:16] And so whenever I talk about the Instagram, when I teach it, when I coach, I like to point out these things at the beginning. So thank you for, for addressing those things that it can be used. It's sort of like, you know, I think in star Wars, my daughter loves star Wars. It can be like used for the light side or the dark side, you know, I think good or evil and, um, yeah.
[00:22:36] And, and each individual kind of has their own experience with it so. Yeah, one thing you talked about that I really want to highlight is the idea of like, as a coach, therapist, healer, teacher, energy worker, like whatever it is that you're identifying with, the importance of like stepping out of the work of doing it for others and doing it for yourself.
[00:22:56] And that is, that's like something that we're really trying to be intentional about in our company [00:23:00] right now. Like I have actually completely stepped out, not completely, but mostly stepped out of teaching yoga because I'm feeling like there's a component that I'm missing in my own education before I can really get back into it and feel comfortable with it.
[00:23:12] And one thing that we've seen a lot in our, our business is like we, we like to ask people to take the Enneagram early on so we can figure out the best ways that people like to accept feedback or to be praised or whatever it is. And just kind of helps us understand our people better. And what we realized in the beginning is that a lot of healers who are largely women take it and are twos when they first take it.
[00:23:35] And then as they get to know the Enneagram better and understand it better and as we encourage them to kind of do more research on it, that usually changes or isn't where they land. So have you noticed that you said you originally, you're obviously a healer as well and typed as a two originally, do you find that as a theme or is that just like an isolated incident that we're finding in our practice?
[00:23:55] Definitely not an isolated incident. That's, that's hugely prevalent and it's because [00:24:00] you know, what we, what we talked about before, women are trained to be twos. Women are trained to take care of their family, to take care of their kids, to give and give and give and give. And create a lot of physical labor for, for the culture and a lot of emotional labor for the culture.
[00:24:15] And, um, and again, that's, that's, it's women and then it's black women. It's women of color. It's like more so, but that's what, that's what we, we train we're trained to do. And we're trained to do that by our parents, by our families. It's sort of like what's expected of us. So yes, our, our way of being out in the world, ideally for the kind of patriarchal culture looks very two.
[00:24:37] It's like good job. You did it. You're not taking care of your own needs. And you know, spiritually it's, it's encouraged by a lot of different religions. What I'm not saying is that giving isn't a good thing. What I'm saying is that we can't bypass the self first. So the two, if you just think of that process, pride being the passion of the two and flattery what I can do and give and, and, and [00:25:00] bestow upon the other, being the fixation, what takes the mind out of presence, but the virtue of the two being humility.
[00:25:07] True humility, not false humility, like, Oh don't worry about me when it really is all about them. The twos idea of humility is we're all on the same playing field. I am as worthy as you, so I'm not less worthy. I'm definitely not more worthy. What the two is operating under is really the perception that I am more worthy.
[00:25:26] So I'm going to do this for you so I get all of it back. It's an unconscious thing. And that's what creates the resentment, the anger, the unfortunately physical symptoms and disease that a lot of people have through sheer exhaustion of over-giving and doing. And then, you know, when you come back to, Oh, wait a minute, I'm on the same plane.
[00:25:45] I'm just as worthy. Like I can love myself? Then the actual idea and action of loving and giving and being helpful and contributing to a family and a culture becomes a lot more [00:26:00] pure, comes a lot more ethical, has a lot more integrity, is a lot stronger.
[00:26:05] It lands deeper in other people because they can, they can see when a two is being a two and just giving to get. They can feel it. It feels conditional. But when a two is practicing really dramatic, Um, powerful, I call it extreme self care.
[00:26:20] Really looking maybe selfish and taking good care of themselves. And then we kind of get what's left over that kind of pours out of that full cup. We all want to be around our twos that are healthy, you know? And so, and so if we can figure that out first as women. How to love ourselves, meet our own needs, nurture that inner child, be present for ourselves, then our giving in the world doesn't have to have those kinds of conditions and resentment and all of that.
[00:26:46] What are you going to do for me? That's kind of not spoken. Yes, women mistype as two all the time. Men also that are twos mistype as not twos because men are taught out of their hearts. They're taught that they have to be powerful.
[00:26:59] They can't be emotional, [00:27:00] they can't cry. And so the, the, some deep grief that I've experienced from, from clients is, is women that are actually maybe the more assertive types, three, sevens, and eights. The more, like, very present, very visceral kind of powerful women. And they might type as a two, but they're really like something a lot more embodied and powerful.
[00:27:20] Well, they're not taught to be powerful in their body so they just be a two, right. They go out there and be, be a two. Men, similarly, beautiful tenderhearted twos out there acting like eights, acting like sevens, acting like asses a lot of times because they're not able to access their heart because when they were three years old or four years old, they were told to dry up and quit crying.
[00:27:41] And quit being a P word. And so they just, they learned how to be not tender. This is a cultural phenomenon. Yes. Men need to get taught back into their hearts and have that be okay. And women need to be powerfully allowed to be in their bodies and have that be celebrated. And I think it is. I mean, if [00:28:00] you, if you look at what's happening, here's my silver lining.
[00:28:03] I think that some of the things that have come out of the dramatics and chaos and of the last several years has been that. You know, the me too movement, civil rights, justice protests. Like actually, no we're going to be this way. The power's coming back. Um, I think in, in, in our sort of not to get all political here, but I just feel like that's happening.
[00:28:26] I feel like it's a beautiful evolution and it's occurring a lot of times through this type of work. People learning how to feel their feelings. Yeah, that resonates so deeply with me because I am a three that originally typed as a two, uh, and realized after doing this work, that actually I was not a two and have learned a lot about myself through that journey. Actually, when you and I sat down and talked was one of the first times I've really started to break out of that.
[00:28:51] Um, and so what you're saying is that it's not that our type changes, but that often the way that we are taught to behave influences [00:29:00] how we originally type. Sure or, and possibly our understanding of ourselves changes or evolves or grows. So it might be that you have a lot of, two energy maybe innately because of that three.
[00:29:11] Maybe you have a natural wing of that two, but what was celebrated maybe was the two and not the three. Yeah. And so in, especially as a three. You know, it's like women, a lot of times, now sometimes they're very much taught to be three in some families and cultures, but a lot of women are taught to not be so assertive and powerful and strong and achieving. It's like, well what can you do for others?
[00:29:33] You know? So, so I think that, you know, you have access to both, probably some inherent two energy and also what you were taught. And, um, I'm curious to know now what Ashley is. I'm a seven wing eight. And when you talk about, when you talk about what you're taught. From the time I was small, my dad will say it to this day.
[00:29:51] He'll be like, I always want you to be what? And I was like an independent black woman. He said that ever since I was three [00:30:00] years old. And when you sit here and you talk about, you know, how we were raised and how we were brought up, I'm just like, oh wow. And when you use the example of, you know, powerful women being three, seven and eight, I was just like, wait, what?
[00:30:15] Whoa. Because from the moment I was young, that's all I've ever been taught is like to be independent, to be independent. I'm a married woman. My dad would pull me to the side and he'll be like, "Okay, what are you?" Strong, independent black woman. And I'm just, I think I'm getting a little bit emotional because just hearing you speak about all of this is just so powerful and it's through all my personal, like I've grown so much in this last year and you've hit on so many things and just you breaking that down in that little last segment, I was just like, wow.
[00:30:50] Wow. Just keep talking. Yeah. Well, what I'll, what I'll encourage you to do is to keep feeling. You said, you said, I, I just [00:31:00] I'm getting emotional and that, that seven wing eight. It's like, I really want you to, to really feel that emotional, to feel that connection. I feel that because that access to the emotion and even being able to vulnerably say I'm getting emotional is, is sometimes atypical and difficult from the structure of the seven wing eight.
[00:31:20] It's like the heart is what's going to drop out for the three too. It's like the heart drops out and that strong, independent woman, i.e. what you think and what you do, is what takes over. And so the balancing work for those assertive types, men, women doesn't matter.
[00:31:35] It's not important about gender, but the balancing work for those types is to really access that heart center. So when you're having something that moves you or touches you or connection with somebody, give that some space and some time to really kind of like marinate because that's, that's what allows the thoughts and the amazing ideas to really integrate fully down into your [00:32:00] body, into your actions.
[00:32:01] That's another bypass that can happen with a seven wing eight. It bypasses the heart and it's just all thoughts and actions. So if you let it kind of marinate in those feelings and kind of go down, that's beautiful process of that type structure.
[00:32:14] That's been a big leadership lesson for us to allow our heart to, I mean obviously we're both pretty strong minded and we can bowl people over if we're not really intentional about being in our heart space. And that explains all the tears these past couple weeks. When you tell me to feel, I mean, it's been a lot of crying going on in a lot of, but all I've been asking for is connection and compassion and emotion.
[00:32:41] I want to be a mom, so, Hmm.
[00:32:52] Whenever she cries, I cry. It's like, you know, that's, what's gonna actually, Ashley that's what's going to be the biggest [00:33:00] gift I think in being a mom, is that ability to really, truly feel and not skip over the step. Yeah.
[00:33:09] We get so uncomfortable with emotions and vulnerability in public, or, you know, and it's like, God, what a, you know, if you look at people on TV or, you know, social media, it's like, when do we feel most connected to them is when they're being totally authentic and we can smell it out like wolves.
[00:33:28] Right. We can tell. Yeah. Here's, what's cool about now we're looking at each other over zoom. Your listeners are just kind of listening and there's a connection that's available to everybody across any time, because this will be listened to later. It's visceral. You can, you can feel it. Like I can feel yourselves.
[00:33:50] I can understand your, your emotions right now. Yeah. That doesn't exist without the vulnerability. That doesn't exist [00:34:00] without your open, big, true heart. And so when we're trying to heal or get connection, and we're bypassing the very gifts that we have to truly give us that, it's a shame. You know, we can't, we can't out-think or create this from our minds or from our bodies.
[00:34:16] We have to do it with our hearts. The energy of that is so beautiful. And I think it can stop wars and heal a lot of traumas and wounds. It's just this ability to say, here I am. Warts and all here it is. Here's my, here's my core. So this is my truth. Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing that with me. Well, thank you.
[00:34:39] I see why now both Liz and grace are like in love with you and think you're the best. So I'm there right there with them. I appreciate you. I really do. Thank you.
[00:34:53] Yeah, Ramona. So our people are going to want to find you now, for sure. [00:35:00] What is the best way for them to do that? Yeah. So, um, I will go ahead and say here, there's some changes that I've made.
[00:35:07] Um, I'm doing a COVID, but really not. It was, this stuff was in the works ahead of time. Um, I didn't renew the lease of the space I had in East Nashville, but we've kind of morphed into this, like, little studio space that we're sharing. It's myself, my partner, another massage therapist, and that's on hold for right now.
[00:35:26] And then, um, someone doing EFT tapping and spiritual mediumship. So we've kind of just like really distilled it down to the things that were like the most important or maybe even the things that we're most passionate about. So the center's evolved because you know, you're not going to have huge groups of people right now.
[00:35:42] But eventually I want to do that again. Um, but right now I'm just doing some body work clients and Reiki, and then this coaching, and then my radio show is actually getting ready to take a break because I'm starting a podcast which I've been talking about for, Michelle Shellfond wants, actually been telling me to do it and lighting a fire under my butt for about the past [00:36:00] three years.
[00:36:00] But I'm finally deciding like all the radio show takes up so much of my bandwidth and time and it's all volunteer and it's awesome. And I learned so much on it, but, um, I'm really ready to do this different thing. So if the radio show is going to have all of its episodes archives still on the mynashvillecenter.com website.
[00:36:19] And so that's four and a half years of archived episodes. We talk about the Enneagram. We talk about everything. So that's still going to be there, but I'm not going to be putting any new ones, uh, as far as, um, after February. But the podcast is going to be starting probably March. And that's going to be exactly what we're talking about.
[00:36:35] It's Enneagram, adult chair work and energy work and how those things combined can help us heal. So I'm going to be really focusing on that. I'm also starting a non-profit and have some land in Northern New Mexico that we're going to be opening up a spiritual center and also doing this sort of spiritual center work here with intentional healing meditations.
[00:36:54] So where there's a lot of things in the works right now, we're in this weird transitional period. I think [00:37:00] everyone's in a weird transition period. Um, but you can, you know, I can always do. I always do the zoom sessions with people. You can book that through the website and people could find me that way. I do podcasts a lot so you can probably Google me there.
[00:37:12] I'm not exactly sure. I've never tried to do that, but I've done so many of them and then I never know where they are and I've never really listened to any of them, but they're out there. I know they are. For someone who doesn't love podcasts, it sure seems to be popping up in your life quite a bit. Well lately, yeah.
[00:37:25] Yeah. I think I have to, um, I'm pivoting. I'm taking a new, because I really like the production. I really like creating something artistic with the radio show. That's been really cool for me. It's this outlet. I never knew I even wanted. I got that from my inner child, but being able to broadcast music that I like and kind of edit everything together into this, this, um, production, this kind of piece that I think is like, it feels like art.
[00:37:51] You know, it's like an interview with somebody where I get in touch with them. The new podcast is going to be incorporating panels of Enneagram, inner child work, one-on-one [00:38:00] experiential coaching sessions with permission, maybe confidentially with people, but they just learned about their Enneagram type.
[00:38:05] Now what? Would be doing that. Um, so yeah, got a lot of stuff. That's awesome. I was actually going to ask other than obviously coaching, well maybe in addition to coaching, if someone is, just like can't figure out their type, what resources do you recommend? Can they book a session with you? What happens next?
[00:38:24] That's what a lot of the coaching sessions actually initially are, is I don't know my type. And so I'll oftentimes direct them to one of those two websites to take that kind of cursory test, the enneagramworldwide.com or the Enneagraminstitute.com. Um, these tests are 10 and $12. They're nothing, they're not a huge investment, but I think they're very much worth it.
[00:38:42] And then you can kind of like send me the email results and I'll look them over. And then we'll, we'll start from there. And each coaching session is subjective to what, who I'm sitting next to? I mean, I would have a totally different experience with the two of you. And a lot of times it's, well, here's, what's going on in my life specifically uniquely to me, and [00:39:00] also here's my Enneagram test results.
[00:39:01] And how can we use both of these things as well as, you know, maybe a health history. I like to incorporate physical health and nutrition and all these things into it to figure out, you know, how I can. I mean, it sounds cliche, but how can I experience my best self? How can I understand the things that block me and, and help to heal those things?
[00:39:19] So it's, it's, um, it's not just, it's discovering your Enneagram type together through dialogue and through hearing, through picking up cues when I'm listening to somebody and they say, I just, yeah. I just can't stand conflict. I mean, I can't handle it and I'm not really angry. I just can't. It's like, we might look at one of these different types then because that's very indicative of that type structure.
[00:39:39] So all of the sessions are different and unique, and it's really cool because I never know what's going to happen in a day. And I love that. I love that, that connection and that intimacy of seeing somebody truly being with somebody. Ramona, I'm going to find you on my own. I know how to get in touch with you.
[00:39:58] This has been great. [00:40:00] I want more. So it's a, it's funny that you said your inner child would want a chocolate sprinkle donut because I have been really connecting with my inner child this year through sprinkles, and I'm about to go eat a chocolate sprinkle donut right now. Like literally right now. I have no problem activating my inner child, ever.
[00:40:26] Thank you so much. This was really, really good. So, um, I actually was a little intimidated about coming on to this today, just because you know how you overthink things, you get in your head and like I'm not that well-versed in this and what, but it wasn't an opportunity for me to talk about what I know is it's it's to learn more.
[00:40:50] And I just appreciate you just even taking what I said earlier and breaking that down in such detail. I mean, this was pretty magical and I, I [00:41:00] really personally appreciate it and we appreciate it as well. Thank you so much. It was an honor to meet you both and see you again. And, um, Yeah, I appreciate the time.
[00:41:10] And, um, talk whenever. So again, thank you so much. And Liz, I think that's it. And that's all. All right. Peace out.
[00:41:18] Thank you for listening to the Wellness Community Magic podcast. If you liked this episode, leave us a review or drop us a message and tell us your favorite part. You can find us on twitter @wellness_pod or online at TRILUNAwellness.com/podcast. Tune in next week for more tough but necessary conversations about the future of self-care.
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[00:41:56] I told you it was going to get deep. I warned you. [00:42:00] Grace, you're fired.